<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><SPAN><FONT size=3
face="garamond, times new roman, serif"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><SPAN><FONT
face="garamond, times new roman, serif"><FONT size=3>Since Anastassia
Makarieva's wonderful interview with Nate Hagens is 2 hrs., I wanted to
paraphrase/condense the opening quote in the video that pinpoints a fundamental
error in science. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>"We are calibrating the [climate] models using the<SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"
class=gmail_default> </SPAN>most <I>disturbed</I> ecosystems.
(It's like viewing a very ill, hospitalized patient's capacity as
"average" for humans.) This is not how natural forests function. So our vision
of forests is totally distorted, and we don't study the most important forests
that <I>actually stabilize the climate." </I><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Best to all,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Susan H.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"
class=gmail_default>===============</SPAN><BR></P></DIV></FONT>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.38; MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT
face="garamond, times new roman, serif"><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"
class=gmail_default><B>Перевод текста на рус язык:</B></SPAN><BR></FONT></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.38; MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT
face="garamond, times new roman, serif"><A
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tYQF0X2PwYtcuakGlQCuvWVxf5uZeMk2/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117757554318930373028&rtpof=true&sd=true"
target=_blank>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tYQF0X2PwYtcuakGlQCuvWVxf5uZeMk2/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=117757554318930373028&rtpof=true&sd=true</A></FONT></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.38; MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><FONT
face="garamond, times new roman, serif"><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"
class=gmail_default>===================</SPAN><BR></FONT></P><FONT
face="garamond, times new roman, serif">
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.38; MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><B
style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"
class=gmail_default>В</SPAN>идео запись </B></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.38; MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><A
href="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/WhctKLbmlDTmChmvJLNNZhSprZMfrBHxNStjhcFTHMdfGHGSqJbDzqSqPJMDfztHXPjRxLl?compose=FrjKMmxRrGZlxxrrlkMBQPLcBGcCXtnfHKkjRfTwRCtbZCkSdlmvctGVWBSLtlHftChfNGFBcGWMKMzVKLqpLVNvXfcqsbSXlprPdbwMXFggFScb&projector=1"
target=_blank>https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/WhctKLbmlDTmChmvJLNNZhSprZMfrBHxNStjhcFTHMdfGHGSqJbDzqSqPJMDfztHXPjRxLl?compose=FrjKMmxRrGZlxxrrlkMBQPLcBGcCXtnfHKkjRfTwRCtbZCkSdlmvctGVWBSLtlHftChfNGFBcGWMKMzVKLqpLVNvXfcqsbSXlprPdbwMXFggFScb&projector=1</A></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.38; MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt"><BR></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.38; MARGIN-TOP: 0pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Best
regards,</P></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr class=gmail_signature data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV><FONT face="garamond, times new roman, serif">Bulat K.
YESSEKIN</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV dir=ltr class=gmail_attr>---------- Forwarded message ---------<BR>От:
<SPAN dir=auto><<A href="mailto:mhaubner2@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mhaubner2@gmail.com</A>></SPAN><BR>Date: чт, 11 сент. 2025 г. в
23:34<BR>Subject: FW: [Water & Climate] Anastassia Makarieva on Nate Hagens'
podcast<BR>To: Ugo Bardi <<A href="mailto:Ugo.Bardi@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Ugo.Bardi@gmail.com</A>>, Svet Zabelin <<A
href="mailto:svetfrog@gmail.com" target=_blank>svetfrog@gmail.com</A>>, Bulat
Yessekin <<A href="mailto:bulat.yessekin@gmail.com"
target=_blank>bulat.yessekin@gmail.com</A>><BR></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word" lang=EN-US vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">Hi, All: This
is an excellent interview (of course, with these two people!) and I wanted to
get the summary and transcript out to my friends at Bio4Climate and the
EcoRestoration Alliance right away.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">In order to
make this quickly available to you in Italian, Russian and Slovak, I used the
Microsoft document translator as a quick means to give you access. My apologies
if Bill Gates is a horrible linguist, and we can work together to find a better
software or online tool in the future, if you like, just let me know. Also, as a
reminder, I’m quite willing to move YouTube videos that you find important and
can treat them the same way—it takes less than 10 minutes for me to do this work
and I’d be honored to be of help to you all.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">On a
local/bioregional level, my life work is to translate things like the biotic
pump (and Slow the Flow, a la Alpha Lo, Michal Kravcik, <A href="http://et.al"
target=_blank>et.al</A>.) and Nature Cools without using terms like
‘biodiversity,’ ‘green’ and the rest, as the politicization of these in the US
right now is horrifying and more than counterproductive—it is the continuation
of devastation that we cannot afford. As a result, ‘soil sponge’ and Slow the
Flow relate to our smallest-minded elected representatives because it means
spending less on ‘stormwater management.’ Using Nature Cools gives this same
target audience the chance to ‘reduce costs of air conditioning’ and ‘provide
places of comfort’ (thinking Miyawaki miniforests here). There is a severe
backlash to anything which smacks of socialism or communism, like ‘providing
relief to poor people of color’ and that’s a whole ‘nother
discussion.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">Please let me
know if you need improvements or changes on the process represented here, and
thank you all for being such strong beacons for everyone
else.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">Mark
Haubner<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:mhaubner2@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mhaubner2@gmail.com</A> <<A href="mailto:mhaubner2@gmail.com"
target=_blank>mhaubner2@gmail.com</A>> <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September
11, 2025 14:15<BR><B>To:</B> 'Susan Haig' <<A href="mailto:sh@civicstory.org"
target=_blank>sh@civicstory.org</A>>; 'Hart Hagan' <<A
href="mailto:nhhagan@gmail.com"
target=_blank>nhhagan@gmail.com</A>><BR><B>Cc:</B> 'BLC Leadership Team
Boston' <<A href="mailto:blc-leadership-team-boston@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>blc-leadership-team-boston@googlegroups.com</A>>;
'EcoRestoration Alliance' <<A
href="mailto:ecorestoration-alliance@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>ecorestoration-alliance@googlegroups.com</A>>; 'Water &
Climate' <<A href="mailto:waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com</A>><BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[Water & Climate] Anastassia Makarieva on Nate Hagens'
podcast<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">With the
mention of the length of the interview, I have created a transcript
(TurboScribe) and a summary of that (ChatGPT). I hope this allows people to get
the gist of this amazing discussion and prompts people to read the transcript
and perhaps watch the video—there is nothing like hearing Anastassia explain
things in her own voice. (There are some errors in the transcript, like
ascribing Tom Hanks to one of the speakers, but I will get to the clean up
during our next blizzard.)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif">Mark
Haubner<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com</A> <<A
href="mailto:waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com</A>> <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Susan Haig<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 11, 2025 09:27<BR><B>To:</B>
Hart Hagan <<A href="mailto:nhhagan@gmail.com"
target=_blank>nhhagan@gmail.com</A>><BR><B>Cc:</B> BLC Leadership Team Boston
<<A href="mailto:blc-leadership-team-boston@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>blc-leadership-team-boston@googlegroups.com</A>>;
EcoRestoration Alliance <<A
href="mailto:ecorestoration-alliance@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>ecorestoration-alliance@googlegroups.com</A>>; Water &
Climate <<A href="mailto:waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>waterclimate2025@googlegroups.com</A>><BR><B>Subject:</B>
[Water & Climate] Anastassia Makarieva on Nate Hagens'
podcast<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Thank you Hart, and hello everyone,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Since Anastassia Makarieva's wonderful interview with
Nate Hagens is 2 hrs., I wanted to paraphrase/condense the opening quote in the
video that pinpoints a fundamental error in
science. <U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>"We are calibrating the [climate] models using the most
<I>disturbed</I> ecosystems. (It's like viewing a very ill, hospitalized
patient's capacity as "average" for humans.) This is not how natural forests
function. So our vision of forests is totally distorted, and we don't study the
most important forests that <I>actually stabilize the
climate." </I><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Best to all,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Susan H.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 9:41 AM Hart Hagan <<A
href="mailto:nhhagan@gmail.com" target=_blank>nhhagan@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Friends,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I was happy to see this this morning!<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><A href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWdXCqVOFkY"
target=_blank>Their Vital Role in Climate Dynamics, Rain, and The Biotic Pump
with Anastassia Makarieva | TGS 193</A><U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Congratulations, Anastassia!<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hart<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>-- <BR>You received this message because you are subscribed
to the Google Groups "Water & Climate" group.<BR>To unsubscribe from this
group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <A
href="mailto:waterclimate2025+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com"
target=_blank>waterclimate2025+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</A>.<BR>To view
this discussion visit <A
href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/waterclimate2025/CAJKDyLA0x6Rtf-Nsfe7a_j049StLYBxV4nCJTr6QmZnz_rDpLA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer"
target=_blank>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/waterclimate2025/CAJKDyLA0x6Rtf-Nsfe7a_j049StLYBxV4nCJTr6QmZnz_rDpLA%40mail.gmail.com</A>.<U></U><U></U></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR clear=all><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN>-- </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Susan E. Haig<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Founder, CivicStory.org<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>SRHub.org NJ Sustainability Reporting
Hub<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Conductor, South Orange Symphony
Orchestra<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>South Orange, NJ<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>-- <BR>You received this message because you are subscribed
to the Google Groups "Water & Climate" group.<BR></P><FONT size=2
face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">From: <B dir=auto class=gmail_sendername>Bulat
Yessekin</B> <SPAN dir=auto><<A
href="mailto:bulat.yessekin@gmail.com">bulat.yessekin@gmail.com</A>></SPAN><BR>Date:
сб, 13 сент. 2025 г. в 15:22</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Fwd: FW: В чем провалы климатической
модели?- Nate Hagens with Anastasia Makarieva<BR>To: cawatercouncil <<A
href="mailto:cawatercouncil@googlegroups.com">cawatercouncil@googlegroups.com</A>>,
<<A
href="mailto:climate-change-in-kazakhstan@googlegroups.com">climate-change-in-kazakhstan@googlegroups.com</A>>,
ENWL <<A href="mailto:enwl@enw.net.ru">enwl@enw.net.ru</A>>,
seu-international <<A
href="mailto:seu-international@googlegroups.com">seu-international@googlegroups.com</A>><BR></FONT><FONT
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>